INT: I'm Randal Kleiser, I’m in Las Vegas, it's April 30th, 2009, and I'm about to interview Jerry Lewis for the Directors Guild of America Visual History Program.

INT: Speaking of monitors--[JL: Yes.]--of course, you invented that whole thing. [JL: You bet.] It's amazing and when I heard that you, the first time you did it on THE BELLBOY with 30 monitors on the set, I just, I mean you had them everywhere, so everywhere you looked, you could...
JL: I never, I never missed any of the spots. Any of the action. [INT: Incredible.] I was aware of every instant, and that's as it should be. [INT: And it wasn't just for your performance, it was for the timing of everyone else.] Everything. [INT: Yeah.] Every department has benefited by it. [INT: Has a Director, yeah.] And they still do. [INT: I know, we all use it.] Video assist, I look for it in credits, it comes after craft service, but what's the difference? Just give me the credit. [INT: Right, right, exactly, yes that's true.]

INT: Well, what was the first movie you ever saw that made an impression on you? Can you remember back?
JL: CAPTAINS COURAGEOUS, with Spencer Tracy and Freddie Bartholomew and Lionel Barrymore, Mickey Rooney and... [INT: What was it about that movie?] It was the performance of Spencer's lifetime. He won the Academy Award [Oscars] for it. But it was the most sensitive and most compelling story that I had ever seen at 10 years old. And it affected me immensely and I carried that affect of how it affected me, I carried it with me for a long time. I remember distinctly. My birthday was March 16th, 1936. And I saw that movie about a year later. And it really had an affect on me. It had an affect on my choices and my judgment call. It had an affect on just making contact with another human being on a sensitive level, on an emotional level. And it showed me what I had known in my heart, but there it was in pictures and sound, of what love could mean to two people: small boy, big man. And how the big man learns so much from the innocence of the child. And how the man developed his character to a fare-thee-well because of the young boy. I identified with... Spencer Tracy was Manuel, the fisherman. Freddy Bartholomew came from a rich family. He was dumped off a train, or he got wound up somewhere and found himself at the, at the port where the boat was. And the crew fell in love with him and took him under their wing. And now he has to go back to his father with the military school and the special teachers and the special lifestyle. And he wanted to stay with Manuel, the fisherman. And Manuel died in an accident at the finish of the film. And I was shattered. I really took it to heart. I went to dinner with my mom and dad and I sobbed during dinner. And I sobbed a number of times after that at the thought of the magnificence of the film. And then...

JL: Some 13 years later, I'm in a steam room with Spencer Tracy at the Sands Hotel. And I'm telling him what the film [CAPTAINS COURAGEOUS] meant to me. And he was affected by it because he came back the next day and wanted me to continue to talk to him about it. [INT: Wow] So we hit up a friendship that way, he came to see my show three or four times, and I told him I took him to my heart at 10, and it's still, it's still enveloped around my guts and everything else. And my feelings for Spencer was so special. [INT: Did you see the film several times after that, when you were 10?] Oh sure. [INT: And did it always hit you the same way?] Always. Always. [INT: Yeah, that initial impression is so strong when you're a kid like that.] Well, when you get affected by something, you don't necessarily have to know the why of it. All you know is go with the feeling that you got. Let it take you and let it propel you into places that it will propel you to. And you have nothing, no say about it. It's all in the inner government. And the inner government says, "You will love this, you will hate that. You will give this, you will take that." And my inner government has always served me very well. I listen to it. It's all part of the instinct and part of knowing when, and knowing not. I've been very blessed with that knowledge. I haven't stepped on my joint that many times because I had been insulated with a lot of this stuff that I had from my parents as a kid, which I turn into pay dirt. I mean every time I do something good, I think of my dad and the lessons, and then I get sad 'cause he's, he didn't see it. I wish the hell he would see it. [INT: Did you think about him at the Oscars that night?] Oh god, did I ever. Oh god. I saw him up there running around from table to table, three sheeting, telling everybody that's his kid. That would've been my dad at any party in Hollywood that night. He never ever worried about how that came off to people, his pride and his joy. As I have for Danny [Danielle Lewis, daughter], who I named after him. She's a miracle. I mean she wakes me in the morning to say goodbye before she goes to school, and she almost literally electrifies my whole being. I don't want to go back to sleep because I've seen her and I'm up. So I'm starting to go to bed earlier because she's getting me up at 5:30.

INT: Was there a film that inspired you to become a Director? A certain film that made you think that's what I want to do?
JL: Billy Wilder was responsible. [INT: Really?] And Frank Tashlin. [INT: Right.] Because when I went to Florida... The story of THE BELLBOY, which should be told based on the fact that it was my first directorial effort. I was frightened to death, but I couldn't get Billy Wilder to do it. He said to me, quote, "Do it yourself. You wrote a wonderful script." He had read the script. He said, "You wrote a wonderful script with wonderful gags, do it yourself. Get what you've written on the screen." I said, "Why can't we make a deal, Billy?" He said, "Because our companies wouldn't work. I get too much money, you can't afford that. If I made a deal with you where I don't take any money, that doesn't make sense. I'm getting older and I should be making money for my old age and so on." And Tashlin said unequivocally that I should not look anymore and do it myself. [INT: Well you'd worked with him and he saw that you were paying attention. Didn't you produce for him too?] Yes, of course. [INT: So, as a Producer, you were learning every part of the business, what everyone did.] By that time, I was very well versed. I didn't know it all, but I sure as hell felt like I did. But the beauty of my first Director job was that everyone on that crew had taught me for years before that. [INT: Same crew?] I used the crew that I used on the Wallace [Wallace Kelley] films, and my own independent films. [INT: Wallace being the cameraman?] Hmm. [INT: Wallace being the cameraman, or?] Wally Kelley [Wallace Kelley]. [INT: Yeah, right.] Yeah. I learned as I went along. I mean the first day of the shooting of THE BELLBOY, I called my dad that night and I said, "Dad, I cannot believe the stuff I knew that I didn't know I knew." And it was true, I was on fire that first day. [INT: I bet.] I didn't miss a beat. I didn't miss, I didn't miss covering for a loop. I didn't miss anything. [INT: Did you have all the cameras [precursor to video assist], the video cameras working that first day?] Oh sure. [INT: So you came up with that idea just before THE BELLBOY?] 1956. [INT: Right, but I mean, you knew you were going to direct THE BELLBOY and that's when you came up with this idea of all the cameras? 'Cause this was your first time?] Of all of the monitors you mean? [INT: Yeah, monitors, that's what I meant.] Oh yeah. I just had to see everything. And then of course watching my crew develop their interest in what we were doing, the playback was so important. I could've wrapped the set and rebuilt that night because I saw I got what I wanted. The printed take was perfect, but I still had to look in dailies to be sure I had it. Then that got less and less, I was very secure with my playbacks. [INT: Sure.] But members of my crew were checking light, checking makeup. A woman with a halation here is impossible to see with the naked eye. But you reverse the polarity, and you have a large bulb, clean that up, and it's done. My boom people moving, in moves and I would talk to them about, "I need this move to take 28 seconds, no less, no more. It's a good number, let's keep it at that." And to watch the move, and see that I got 14 seconds to go and he's stopping, I'd stop, "Hold it. Why are you running? I want 28 seconds, it's a long time. It's a long time for you. It's a wonderful time for me. Take your time. Make it 29, 30 or 34. But stay around 28." And then he did it the next time, and I showed it to him, and he said--[01:12:51 Phone rings once], "God damn it." He said, "It was smoother." I said, "You're not jumping on it like a god damn rabbit, of course it's smoother." And he was there every time I'd make a playback. I said, "You didn't have anything to do in that shot, Bob. What are you looking?" He said, "I just love to watch." Oh okay.

INT: Well you had a wonderful rapport with your crew 'cause they had all worked with you before.
JL: I had an incredible rapport, they were all so god damn proud of what I created and what I was doing and putting it together and getting it done. [INT: Sure. Must've been really amazing for them to see this whole, all the monitors for starters, you know.] Yeah, they were in shock at what I told them I was going to do, and that watching the scene in the playback also helped me improve the scene 'cause I saw an empty spot, or I saw, "that would be a marvelous place for that to happen." You don't get that benefit with daily's, you're just looking at daily's. [INT: Did you have playback on THE BELLBOY? I thought that that came in later?] No, no, no. Playback on THE BELLBOY. I didn't have, I did not have videotape. I had just the recording mechanism. [INT: You mean the--What did you record on? Like, just the sound, or?] It recorded sound on a video camera. So I got pictures on the monitors, and audio on the tracks. [INT: Got it. I see. Wow.]

INT: Your first professional job, though movie wise, before you became a Director. The first movie that you did, was that with Dean [Dean Martin]? [JL: MY FRIEND IRMA.] MY FRIEND IRMA. And the first time you were on. Now--[JL: Another lifetime ago.] Before that, yes. Now the way that you understood comedy so well was because of all the stage work right? I mean you knew? [JL: Vaudeville, my dad, sure.] Yeah, because that's hard to learn I would think. So who were your mentors or teachers would you say? Would it be like Norman Taurog and Frank Tashlin?
JL: Norman was a wonderful old time Director. He had some wonderful, wonderful... He had wonderful little shtick that he did that got him through the day. It was wonderful to watch. And I thought, when I got old, I would do that. I was 20, 21 at the time. I'm working with Norman Taurog and George Marshall. And I'm picking their brains, and I'm picking everyone that I had to do with. Of the 120 some people on my crew, I got something from every single one of them. And I was that much better at the end of the week. I was better with my Actors, I was better with the crew, I was better with everybody. And I was able to be funniest for them. I made them my... [INT: Audience?] My audience. It was amazing at how that developed. I couldn't wait to make another shot. Couldn't wait to play the, I couldn't wait to do that. I'm looking at the board, I'm scheduled to do such and such. Oh I want to do that, oh I can't wait to do that for them. So I had a very strong, for them, syndrome going. I wanted very much to please that crew who were like a [PHONE RINGS] 120 dads, you know.

INT: I took Norman Taurog's directing class at USC [University of Southern California]. And I remember him telling us a story about how he got Jackie Cooper to cry on THE CHAMP, where he took his dog behind a truck and shot it. Had the prop guy shoot off a gun and said, "Your dog just died." And it sounded to me like you had, in your book, something that he did like that for you too, where he said, "think about your dog dying," or something like that?] He nailed me a couple of times. Yeah. [INT: So have you ever used that technique with Actors?]
JL: No. Never had to. But in THE STOOGE, I had to cry and I had a problem getting to it. And Norman [Norman Taurog] made sure I cried. [INT: How did he do that? Do you remember?] Told me about the dog. [INT: Okay, that's the story.] I had never heard about that, and I said "Norman, you're not really sucking me in are you?" He said, "Just do as you're told sonny." And he was wonderful to work with, really. [INT: Yeah.] Tremendous information I got from him. You know, I can't tell you what, but I can tell you that it was a mind blowing experience to work with him. [INT: I remember him telling a story in class about how he wanted Bing Crosby to dive into a pool that was ice cold. And Bing wouldn't do it, so he had the prop man put some dry ice in the pool and said, "Okay Bing, we've heated the pool up." And then he got him to dive in.] I'm glad to hear that. I never heard that. He made him go in? [INT: Yes, and he said, "Oh okay." And he dove in, ah.] Good.

INT: Now, who were some of the filmmakers that you admire? I know Chaplin [Charlie Chaplin], and how about Jacques Tati? Did you ever meet him or...?
JL: I met Jacques Tati in Paris. I appreciated what he did. [INT: He did such great stuff with sound. Like you.] He, what? [INT: He did great stuff with sound, that I see in your films a lot too. Were you influenced by him? Or did--] No. No. I only saw one film that Jacques Tati did before I met him. And I hadn't seen another one after that. [INT: Very similar stuff. Very similar stuff that he did, that you did. I mean the character, the use of sound, you know, extremely good use of sound, the--] Well you see, one of the big things that young Directors don't learn, I think and it's still, it's still a very, very dark chapter in filmmaking, when a young man that's going to direct, when he won't give of himself. When he won't bring everything he's got to the table. And the reason I mention that was because in watching everything that Norman Taurog did, and Tashlin [Frank Tashlin], they were doing things that were all they had in their mind was that, that they were doing. And I had this eagerness to go forward and move on. And move on. And I wasn't nurturing the joke. I wasn't pampering it, I wasn't coddling it. I was doing it and moving. And they got me to back off and take time with it. Give it a little more time. Trust it. More importantly than anything, trust it. You know when you write something, you hope it's as good as you hope it is. And when it is, and you find out that it is, then your work comes up to that bar that you've set for yourself. See, I cannot, I can't go on unless I tell you THE BELLBOY story. Because it should be... [INT: In the archives?] It should be somewhere. [INT: Right, okay.]

INT: What's THE BELL BOY story?
JL: I made a film called CINDERFELLA. And I made it specifically for a family audience. Christmas, I made an album, I put a fortune into it, so that the album indicates to the child what the movie's about. And you play this game, and you have a baton, and you conduct the orchestra, and you do all of the stuff that I believe children love to do. And I go to New York to meet with Barney Balaban about a contract that we were talking about. And he said, "You know, I hate to do this to you 'cause I know how you feel about CINDERFELLA, but we're going to have to release it in July." I said, "Hold it Barney, we had an understanding that this was a Christmas picture." He said, "But Jerry, we have to have a Jerry movie in the summer." I said, "Well you don't have a Jerry movie in the summer, and you're going to take something that we slated for Christmas? I can't stop you from doing that, but I'm going to be very unhappy." He said, "Well what can we do?" I said, "I'll get you a movie for the summer. Leave CINDERFELLA alone. I will deliver to you a movie for the summer." He said, "Where you going to get it?" I said, "I'll have it ready." He gave me dates. I had to deliver to him, May 25th. We were meeting on January the third. [INT: Wow.] I left him, I went down to Florida that night. The next night I'm opening at the Fontainebleau [Miami resort] in the La Ronde Room. And I do two shows a night for two weeks. Before I opened, I had written 26 pages, and by the time I was into the eighth day, I've had a 162 page screenplay. I called Hollywood, sent for a crew, had everyone there within probably 72 hours. And I rolled the next day. [INT: And this is, during all this, you were inventing the video assist?] No, video assist was all done by '56 [1956]. This is '60 [1960] we're talking about. [INT: Okay, alright.] So I had worked on it for four years. I made more trips to Japan then the Japs. [INT: I see.] Back and forth dealing with the Sony corporation, and Mr. Morita was very, very nice to me. He helped me with his guys, and they were intrigued with what I was trying to produce. And I came back from there with the equipment I needed, and I used my basic unit for the video assist. For six or seven years, I was using the prototype. Cost me 900 some thousand dollars to build it. And I used it before I started to improve the technology. But that's how it happened. I did two shows a night, for two weeks and when I finished the engagement, I had six more shooting days. We finished shooting, I went to Las Vegas, to appear at the Sands. And I brought my entire editing crew to Las Vegas and we worked down in the musician's room. Turned it into an editing room and I edited and put together THE BELL BOY in that room in Las Vegas. And Barney Balaban had the prints May 25th. [INT: Wow. That's an amazing story.] They were not happy that I was making a silent movie. And I said to them, "It's not a silent movie. because the kid doesn't speak, doesn't mean it's silent. Everybody talks." They were a little unhappy about the prospect, so they turned the project back to me and my company, so that I was the sole owner of BELLBOY [THE BELLBOY]. [INT: Oh, really.] And to date, it's made me a 199 million dollars, when tickets were a quarter. [INT: Wow. So, but wait a minute, so they didn't release it in the summer time, or they did?] They released THE BELLBOY in the summer time, yeah. [INT: That's what I meant. But you owned it?] Of course. I gave them the releasing. [INT: I see.] I said, "I'll tell you how nice I am, take it and release it, 35 percent. Go ahead." But today, you mention BELLBOY [THE BELLBOY] at Paramount [Paramount Pictures] and they get catatonic. Oh God. [INT: 'Cause you got everything, yeah? That's great.]

INT: Who were some of the other people that you admired, Directors?
JL: Joe Mankiewicz [Joseph L. Mankiewicz]. Joe Mankiewicz was a good friend and a great teacher. [INT: What did you learn from Joe Mankiewicz?] Just to talk. [INT: Dialogue?] Just to talk. And to be open and free and to recognize that everything you do now has a glaring effect on everything you do later. You can't do anything now that doesn't come back at some point in time. Where you're going to have to answer to it, or back it up. There's no time for bullshit Randy, I learned that from Joe Mankiewicz. There's just no time. If I have a member of my crew who's dogging it, I'm going to walk over to him and I'm going to say, "I got a 120 people waiting while we're talking. So I can't make it long, but I see you looking at your watch and that is unacceptable. It's bad for me, it's bad for my crew, it sends the wrong message, and you don't like film in the first place. I don't know why you're here." I said, "I'll tell you what, why don't you take the next eight weeks and take your family somewhere. Have a vacation, I will pay you for all that time. Just so you're not here on this set." [INT: Ouch.] And I said, "Goodbye" to him. [INT: And you did pay him, you did pay him to go away?] Paid him for the eight week contract, sure. [INT: Wow. You know that reminds me, you've--] He was a virus. [INT: Oh yeah, sure.] And he was contagious. He stood and talked to members of the crew, and good Christ all mighty, what he was saying. And I feared that virus. It was the only time I ever fired anyone in 60 years. [INT: Really?] Never fired anybody. Ever. [INT: I've noticed with American crews that they're all looking at their watches and thinking about going to the Winnebago, for the weekends, on Friday nights.] I hope you don't see that a lot. [INT: But, the English crews, totally different. Right?] The what? [INT: English crews. I found that the English crews were all going to go to the theater on the weekends and they were very, very much more interested in what was going on the set.] A lot of people in our business have become lax, they feel that they're very special and that they're in an industry that they got lucky to get into. I think Hollywood as we know it can be a destructive force for a lot of people. They see things and they believe they can be that, do that. They believe that their individual talent isn't what makes up the project. When it is. Every single one of those guys helped me make the product. And I don't let any of them ever forget that without them I don't do anything.

INT: Who do you think helped you most in your career?
JL: Tashlin [Frank Tashlin]. I think Tashlin gave me the greatest sense of what I would be doing. He saw me as someone who was ready to explode with ideas, and with a love and an excitement about the motion picture industry he had never seen before. [INT: Well he knew about sight gags from being a cartoonist, right?.] Oh of course. Of course. [INT: Not many Directors get that.] And he used to watch me move a scene, because it was verbal rather than physical. And we talked about the importance of sight. But do not forget that those with or without sight, can hear. Don't do like a lot of young filmmakers do. They worry about the shot, they worry about what they see, and they treat the sound like, "We'll get that. They'll take care of it." Bullshit, you can't do that. You better hear the sound that matches that picture. And make sure it's as good a quality sound, as the picture. And I was a stickler. I made sure that in my dubbing sessions there was no hurrying up for anything. And they need the room because we worked overtime. Well, they'll have to fucking get me out of here with a crowbar because I got three more reels and I'm going to make them. I treated everything that I did relative to film like it was the last shot in my life. And I remember distinctly thinking that every day I worked on a set. This is it. Look at this gift I've been given. Jesus Christ, go and do good stuff. And make it funny, and make it realistic, and make it exciting, and do all the things that you dreamed about. And to think those things all the time, the tendency is to get you crazy. You can get a little nuts, if you finish an 18 hour day, and you leave the set and you're making plans for a boom move in the morning. I couldn't go home without thinking of the next setup, or the setup I just finished. Will it cut into this set of, I'm planning tomorrow? I would never drive my car without making a shot. Without moving the camera with my car. I used to use my hood ornament as my center point. And I used to drive to keep my hood ornament center of the frame. [INT: That's good, it's kept you on the road.] Yeah.

INT: Well what do you think are some other qualities that a Director needs to have besides this kind of obsessiveness about really getting, communicating what you want to think. What you want to get across?
JL: Well let me, let me quote David Lean, who I had an infinite regard for. And he would say to his crew, "Do you know that this is forever? Do you know that what we're doing today is going to be seen by great-great-great grandchildren that are never going to meet you, but they're going to see your work. That's what we're doing here today folks. That's what we're doing here today and every day for the next 177 days. We are giving joy to families that we don't even know, nor will we know." And that philosophy, which I learned from a student that that knew David Lean, told me that I was doing what David Lean was doing with my crew. And letting them know, "Do you realize, you guys, that when I say roll, we're doing this. We're doing this. And the children that are hungry in Shanghai are going to laugh at this and forget their hunger. They're going to laugh and forget they're hungry." And I took that with me every day that I called the roll. I never ever got so involved that I forget what was the center point of my life. It was that I was blessed, I was lucky. I was given this marvelous gift, and now I can make children around the world laugh. And I go to Shanghai or Hong Kong and there'd be three, 400 children following me in the streets. How'd you like that? [INT: That must be fun.] And I'd come back and I would tell my crew what I saw. Remember my Cameramen, my Dolly Operator, my Gaffer, my Grips, my Electricians, they were all wonderful human beings. That I let into my life. I took them all in to my life. And I forced feed, I force fed them optimism, positive, upscale, high bar, enthusiastic, optimistic, feel good for the guys next door to you. If he's stronger than you, bravo. We got one that'll lift the god damn fucking boom car, or whatever. It was something that over time I got wonderful letters from my, members of my crew. They weren't known to write thank you, or write notes. But I got a bunch of them. Thanking me for the human and loving approach that I had to film. And that they loved feeling that. And that they loved trying that. And that it worked for them in their lives, with their children and their families. And they came to work because of that. With an uplifted feeling. I want to work with that guy. That's marvelous, he makes you laugh all day and then he tells you the importance of living.

JL: When I had Actors, they heard the same dialogue, but on their level [working with Actors on set.]. On the Actors' level. [INT: How would that be different? How would that be different?] Well you got to understand that an Actor comes to you with an ego, and comes to you with a preconceived notion of his worth. And what I got to say to him is, you ain't there yet. You're going to be, if you listen. But if you think you're just going to walk through this industry, we're not going to know about you in about four years. You're going to be out somewhere, you thinking you're still involved, and you're not. And I got to tell you how you can give yourself absolute security. That's be nice to everyone you meet on the set. None of your bullshit about your own personal triumph. You're not here for a personal triumph, you're here for my triumph. And I can't let you get in my way. I got a letter from that Actor, thanking me for straightening him out. [INT: Who was that Actor?] I can't say. [INT: Oh, come on.] Good Actor, a very good Actor. I would never mention a name, but Cruise [presumably Tom Cruise] would stand around me Randy, and listen to me conferring with my mixer. [INT: To see what you'd say?] They wanted to hear how I handled that. He said, quote, "I need another take." I said, "Why?" Which you know. He said, "Well, when she turned, and he did the line, it was kind of an overlap." I said, "Hold it a second. Why don't you ask me how I'm going to cut it? If you ask me how I'm going to cut it, I'll tell you I don't need the fucking line. We're going to record it again so that you don't have any problem with your department head. But I'm not recording it again because I need it. I've got what I want. And we'll do it."

INT: Now that brings up a question. How has directing changed over the years? Because you just mentioned department heads. [JL: How did what?] How did Direc--How has the job of the Director changed over the years? Because you just mentioned a department head. That doesn't exist anymore.
JL: I know, but it does with me. [INT: Oh, yeah?] I place them in my own mind. I create department heads that I have to answer to, only here. If I'm getting into miniaturization, if I'm getting into blue screen, if I'm getting into green backing, if I'm getting into traveling mats, if I'm getting into any of the stuff that's really technical that I need help with, I bring them me. And it's hard for them to believe that you could have this fucking excitement about this fucking movie. And they're ecstatic at the fact that it's catching. That they're coming to the set in the morning and they're having coffee and I'm having coffee, and they're whistling and telling stories about their family and they're up, no fear on the set, no fear of talking, no fear of discussion, no fear of it's not part of the film. They all did whatever I did. And it was wonderful and all I ever did was shoot! Everybody fell into place, and I was rolling in less than two minutes. But to watch them after two, three, maybe four weeks, to watch the little groups that developed. That stood three and four in a row like this, watching if I pulled this fucking thing off. And if I yelled, "Perfect, print!" They'd clap, they'd clap. They saw my joy, they saw that I got what I wanted. It was a give and take Randy, every moment of any schedule that I had. People would come to see if what they heard from members of my crew, members of Paramount, they would come and try to see some of this. I had four sided bleacher seats on my sets. I never, I never shot with less than two, 300 visitors. [INT: What about laughter on the track?] They were wonderful. [INT: You told them not to laugh?] They never, ever spoiled a track. [INT: How is that possible, 'cause the stuff you do is so funny?] I did it for 15 years, honey. Never spoiled a track. Now remember that outside my set it said, this is not a closed set. You're welcome, please come in. So before noon, I'd have two to 300 people sitting there watching in awe, then you would see members of my crew moving towards the bleacher. "Hi, oh I do, I do grip work, I handle." And he's now telling them about the film he's making...[INT: Mr. Big.]...With his buddy Carl. Carl will move that wall out of there, you won't even know how he did it, but that's what the Director wants, to get in there. And they did their own moment. They had their moment.

INT: But how has this job [directing] changed for you over the years? I mean... [JL: It hasn't.] It hasn't, you're still, but you still have those same people? Is it the same crew? I mean..
JL: It hasn't. No. But you can make those same people. What you have to do is to dig in, and find the center point of your life. What is the center point. My center point is my own personal esteem that took me 75 years to feel. It was ten years ago, I didn't know about it too well. In the last ten years, I'm recognizing that the reason everything worked so well for me was because I was so honest. Brutally honest. But I never allowed myself to lie to a member of that crew. Never ever told them anything I didn't feel from my heart. Never ever became something I wasn't. And I was leaving the set every night the most satisfied individual you ever met in your life. I mean the kind of joy that I had in this wonderful operation that I'm going to be able to come to tomorrow again. And for 48 more days. It's contagious Randy, I need people to understand that just as people look at an accident, they look at a wonderful thing too. And a wonderful attitude, I have found, brings wonderful people. If you are afraid of the shits in our business and the people that will hurt you, watch for them. And your instinct will save you. We are given wonderful gifts. We're given an attitude, we're given an understanding, we're given suspicion, we're given uncertainty, we're given... What is that man about? Take the time to work with him and you've--you've made a convert. A guy that came every day just to move the crane, all of a sudden comes earlier. And he's checking the dolly for squeaks. Normally he come in at nine, and push it. This guy came an hour early and was really making it work. And I knew that was four weeks of my training that made him do that. He didn't even know he did it until the wrap party. When I called him up. I said, "Carl, everybody knows what you did, you came to the set a fucking hour ahead of time, and then sometimes two hours ahead of time. And you took care of your business and you didn't figure anyone even noticed. We all noticed. And that's what made you such a good man for me. I could never have finished this without you." He leaves there, he is the pride of Beverly Glen, or wherever he lived. And you must take the time to acknowledge them, you mustn't ignore them. You must let them know what you just did was perfect. "Beautiful, Billy that was good." "Arthur, exactly." You got to do that. When you say print, that's forever. You can cut it out and it doesn't have to be in the movie but if you print it, there's something very compelling about the word. I used to jump--My editors went nuts 'cause I'd say, "Perfect! Print! Wait a second. Perfect came in the scene. Oh shit, okay." And I had to slow up. I had to take my time. The editing process, I never allowed anyone to cut anything. I had a mechanic in the editing room. I cut the picture, he did the physical work. 'Cause I did it a couple times and fucked up something awful, so I said, you do the physical work. I'll tell you what to cut. 11 frames down, mark it. Make the cut there and butt cut it to the incoming material and watch it work. Now I run it on the movie, oh and it doesn't work. I'd say, "What the fuck did I do?" He says, "Can I tell you?" I said, "Yeah." He said, "You end early." "I did?" "Yeah it wasn't 11 frames. It was probably 16. Let's do it." We did it, and I'd look at it and he was right. I just didn't let it play long enough.

INT: Have you worked with electronic editing since then?
JL: Oh yeah. Yeah, sure. [INT: 'Cause that is really easy to experiment around.] I hate it. [INT: Do you?] I hate it. [INT: You like to feel the emotion on your tongue.] I got a feel the fucking break when I stop that joke. "Here, it sits here!" You know what one frame does. It's too long. It shouldn't have been there. [INT: Especially in comedy.] Especially, of course in comedy. Incredible. The arguments, the discussions, the reasoning, I had the greatest--What should I call it? I had the greatest motivation in the world. I had children in this country waiting for my movie. What do you got? And you, and you? I am making sure that I do the work, that they're going to have a wonderful time watching. That means, to come on the set with three pages for that day's shooting, or four pages. And that's what you bring to the set. You hardly go moaning anymore. But you bring the four pages, and your set. You know what you can do. Make the first set, haven't said good morning to anyone yet. And then one day he finds out why he's not having a good time. 'Cause he hasn't contributed anything. You have to come there and be something for them that they hope they can be one day. And a little bit of a dream, maybe I can be an operator. Maybe I can be a cinematographer. Why not. Why not! Ask them questions. There he sits, he makes the set, I look at the light, I say it's perfect, we shoot it, that's all he's got to do that hour. Talk to him. Him giving--He loves to let you know he knows something you don't. He is a ham like you don't believe. But you got to get it out of him. Once he gets talking, he'll talk to you about frames, and emulsion, and about 52/40 the new color at Kodak. I mean, you'll get information you can't get at Brandeis [Brandeis University] or ITT. These people can teach you. [INT: And that's what you did all your career?] Yeah. [INT: When you're, yeah.] Yep.

INT: How did the DGA play a role in your career? I mean, when you were starting out, and you went from being an Actor to a Director, did the DGA have anything to--to help you with, or...?
JL: I was just very proud because our union is so good. So strong. It's so respected and it's, it's...I know I...I couldn't have planned this. [INT: What? Oh there you go, your card.] Just came yesterday. I carry Director, Writer. [INT: Actor?] Actor. [INT: Grip.] Name it. 659. I'm carrying 11 cards. [INT: When was the last time you moved a dolly?] Last time I was on a set, I think. [INT: Really?] Oh sure. I get my hands into everything. I went on the set, they were shooting a rock musical, at Borehamwood in London [London, United Kingdom]. I went on the set to see Jerry Gilligan [PH] who was directing, a really nice guy. And we were talking about the information that I've gathered over the years from my crews and working. And I said, "Why don't you just let me show you what I can do." He said, "What do you want to do?" I said, "Let me reload for you." "You're going to shoot?" "Yeah." "When you have to reload, let me do it." The whole fucking crew was watching. And I took that son of a bitch and I locked it in. And fuck, it was gorgeous. I didn't miss a step. I said, "I talked to my Second Assistant [Second Assistant Director] and learned how to do that." I wanted to know. [INT: In case you had a heart attack.]

INT: Can we talk about script? I know you worked with Bill Richmond for many, many years. And what do you look for in a script? What are the elements of a good story?
JL: Well you know, a lot of people can't read a script. They read pages and they don't know what they've read. And what I believe, you have to see in a script, is what affects you. I don't think you can just say that's a wonderful script, but you have no feelings for it. I don't think that works. I think if you like something, and it moves you, it gets your interest naturally. And that's what I need when I read a script. It's got to move me. It's got to tell me, I ain't never seen that before. Or it's got to tell me, I've seen that but this is better. Or this needs careful consideration. I don't think you can just read pages, it's tough, you got to stop, you got to think about what it's saying. And the simplicity factor is something that most people ignore. I guess if it's simple, it's not important. I don't believe that. Simple, let's talk about unimportant. The birth of a baby, look how gorgeous that is and how simple, simple? Yeah, nine months, the mother held it in the womb, in the water bag. And after nine months, it's taken out and it's a human being that's going to be your whole life. When you first hug it. It's pretty simple to me. But it's very complicated. We've got dysfunctional families that come from that birth. That birth and dysfunctional, makes it different. That birth and joy is also different. That birth and the beauty of it, and the understanding of what life is mustn't be forgotten. Especially by creative people. You have to remember that you're creating a water bag and it's going to break one day. And then you're going to see all the stuff on the screen that that nine months has taken to make. And it's glorious. Or if there isn't, you want to make another one. [INT: Fast.]

INT: So how did you work with Bill Richmond? How--Would you guys sit around and talk about what we, should we do next and...?
JL: We worked separately a lot. I loved to write and surprise him. As he loved doing with me. And we would pick and choose scene numbers to work on. [INT: Scene numbers?] Yeah, or scene 112 through 117, let me handle that. You take 210 to 260, or whatever. [INT: Right.] But we would come together after a couple of days and see what we've done. And then we'd have a knockdown, drag-out meeting to make it perfect. And then there were times when I thought something was terribly funny and he didn't. And that bothered me. How could I make this so that he thinks it's funny? Then I found myself making a mistake trying to please him. I had to please the ticket buyer, and he was getting very sophisticated now. So he was liking things a little differently now. And vice versa. So we had to watch one another and it was a great, great relationship. We did good work together.

INT: So that was how you worked with Bill [Bill Richmond]. Did you--Were there other Writers that--? I know you mostly worked with him, but did you work--? [JL: Just Bill.] Just Bill. Okay. Is he still around? Bill? [JL: Yeah, I talked to him about a week ago. He's getting old. And he said to me, "Is this the old man?" I said, "You're the old man." I'm going to be 84 and Billy's going to be 89, I think.] Geez. My dad's turning 90. It's just amazing. [JL: That's great. That's wonderful. I'm going to be, I'm going to be George Burns. I'm going to go to 100. This March I'm 84, that means 16. I can do it.] 16 more years. And the movie that you're about to shoot, that you were starting to tell me about, that. That sounds really interesting. You're playing an 86 year old man? [JL: About my age. 83, 84.] What does he--What happens to him in this story?
JL: I really shouldn't. [INT: Okay, this is going into the archives.] Well, okay. It's a wonderful script. And I'm hoping that we really get it done. [INT: Who's writing this one?] Danny Noah [Daniel Noah]. A new Writer. [INT: How do you work with him?] I haven't met him other than hello the first day. [INT: Did he come up with the idea or...?] He wrote a script. He brought it to the Producer. The Producer wrote me and asked me to read it. Would I be interested in playing the lead? I read it and I called him, I said, "I love it, it's wonderful." So we're having dinner tonight, which should, I should have more information. [INT: Okay. What about, is this something you're going to direct or just act in?] What? [INT: Are you going to direct this or just act in it?] No, no, no. [INT: You're going to be just a performer?] I'm just going to act. [INT: Got it. Right, okay. So you really won't be working with the Writer, you'll be like a...] Well we, I'm sure we'll work together, because he's going to need information that I have. And vice versa.

INT: Do you like to have the Writer on the set? [JL: Yes.] Yes. When you work with Bill [Bill Richmond], were there times when he would come up with ideas and say, "Why don't you do it this way and you listen...?
JL: He knew exactly when I was in trouble, or knew when I should really flush this out. And he was wonderful about it. Never ever, ever got in my way. [INT: What about in casting, would he help there?] Tashlin [Rank Tashlin]? [INT: Casting? No what, would he help with casting, Bill?] What? [INT: Would Bill Richmond help with casting?] I would ask him, sure. Oh yeah. [INT: And what about in post production? Would he be involved in that? No, that was you. All you. Okay. And how was--Do the scripts turn out pretty much the way you imagined them or have there been times when it's totally different and you're surprised?] I'm usually surprised when we put it all together and all the pieces are in place. Very often I'm surprised at how well it moves. Then there are times when I'm frustrated because it isn't moving and the rhythm is wrong. And I have to find out what that is. It could come from a sequence that you shouldn't have had in the movie, that just does that to the very nature of the material coming out. And I've cut stuff out because of that. You know, you get, I get into that wonderful excitement. I'm going to shoot a 360. I shoot the 360 in the patsy, with a half a dozen of the best Actors in the business, and I'm sitting in the rushes and I said to Rusty, my Editor, "What are we going to do with that?" He said, "We're going to stick it on the shelf where it belongs. You're fucking 360 is holding up your movie." [INT: Right.] I said, "I felt that." He said, "When you did it?" I said, "No when I did it I thought I was going to change the world." [INT: Absolutely.] And you've got to tell the truth. You cannot do something that was wrong and there it sits in front of you and you're going to defend it? No, hardly. You can't, that's where you have to start being so fucking honest.